«
»

Episode 12: Chuang Tzu’s Taoism: What Is Wisdom?


Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 1:50:14 — 101.0MB)

Discussing the “Chuang Tzu,” Chapters 2, 3, 6, 18, and 19.

It’s the second-most-famous Taoist text and the most humorous, with anecdotes about people singing at funerals and jumping out of moving coaches while drunk. What could it possibly mean to “make all things equal?” and how is the Taoist sage different from our other favorite paragons of virtue (hint: magical powers)?

Featuring special guest panelist Erik Douglas, another U. Texas philosophy grad school dropout now living in England, who knows more about Eastern philosophy than we do.

Read along with us.

The end song requires explanation: I had a “New Age” period where I investigated Eastern philosophy, tried to be cheerful all the time, and was generally insufferable. This song, “Pass Time Incorporeal,” is an artifact of that time, with lyrics from early fall 1989; the recording is from 1993. It finally slipped out on a 1996 album of similar goofiness rejected from my “real” albums called “Black Jelly Beans & Smokes.”

, , , , , , , , , , , , ,

This entry was posted on December 6, 2009, 2:08 am and is filed under Podcast Episodes. You can follow any responses to this entry through RSS 2.0. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

  1. #1 by Kimberly on December 13, 2009 - 4:54 pm

    Interesting discussion, gentlemen, but I’m really surprised that no one even went to dictionary.com to get the correct pronunciation of Chuang tzu and Lao tzu and the others. It even says it for you if you ask nicely.

    Reply Quote

  2. #2 by Mark Linsenmayer on December 14, 2009 - 9:49 am

    I believe there’s some latitude in how these things are anglicized, just as the spelling can be Chuang Tzu or Chuang Tse.

    It has, however, been a long time since I was around an academic discussion of these guys, so you are likely right, though Chwang Tzoo is much more fun to say than Chuahng Dzuh. Blech.

    Reply Quote

  3. #3 by Seth Paskin on December 14, 2009 - 11:11 am

    I blame Eric because we brought him on as the ‘expert’…;-)

    That being said, the guys have butchered some German phrases already and I’m sure I’m responsible for doing the same to Greek. So we are equal opportunity linguistic heathens.

    Truth is, you are the first of our listeners/commenters to call this out, so while it does not appear to be a big concern for our audience to this point, we will address it in the future. Thanks for the feedback.

    BTW, what is the deal with transliteration anyway? If they don’t want you to pronounce it like “Chuang”, why is it spelled that way?

    Reply Quote

  4. #4 by Wes Alwan on December 14, 2009 - 5:22 pm

    How dare you correct me, Kimberly. You’ve noticed the attention to detail that led me away from scholarship. But as I’ve told you before, I will anglicize with extreme prejudice.

    However:

    While the pronunciation of the title is not such an easy matter as its meaning, I would console my poor reader who is afraid to attempt it by saying that speakers of Sinitic languages themselves have pronounced (and still do pronounce) the two sinographs used to write it in widely varying ways. For example, a Cantonese would read them, more or less, as tshuhng tzyy and a resident of the Chinese capital 2,600 years ago would have pronounced them roughly as tsyang tsyehg or tsryangh tsyehgh. Therefore, it does not really matter that much how each of us says the title of the book in his or her own idiolect. For those who are fastidious, however, the “correct” pronunciation in Modern Standard Mandarin may be approximated as follows…. (More: http://www.sino-platonic.org/abstracts/spp048_chuangtzu.html)

    It lost me at “fastidious.”

    Reply Quote

  5. #5 by Mark Linsenmayer on December 14, 2009 - 5:41 pm

    So the first post that gets all three of us to respond is someone correcting our pronunciation? What does that say about us?

    Reply Quote

  6. #6 by David Emerson on August 17, 2010 - 2:03 pm

    Good Fellows (as opposed to Goodfellas),

    The “orgy of name-dropping” aside, I really enjoyed the playful back-and-forth of east and west. Eric was an excellent addition to the mix. Thanks again.

    Cheers,
    David

    Reply Quote

  7. #7 by matth on August 25, 2010 - 10:13 am

    I really enjoyed this one, probably my favorite so far as i have been making my way from start to finish (skipping around a bit). The mystical religious philosophy blend really appeals to me from the east and i hope in the spirit of this you guys might do something on theism eventually. One for the Abrahamic faiths with Aquinas or Avicenna and something from Hinduism as well. But if not still great stuff, thank.

    Reply Quote

  8. #8 by Rich from NYC on January 11, 2011 - 12:09 pm

    well I’m just a former business student who fell in love with Philosophy after 1 class (all I could take) and kept having great discussion with my former teacher, a Jesuit priest. My favorite podcast and my favorite episode thus far. Let’s take into consideration the interpretations of the texts are rather “iffy”, as is the case when translating ancient Chinese language to English- so much is lost. But a great discussion and helped me grasp some concepts in taoism, which I enjoy reading. (oh and Pooh is a great metaphor). Great job bringing Erick aboard for this one to lend some different insight. God bless and keep up the great work guys. makes my long train commute so short and I usually walk away with a sense of peace in contemplation.

    Reply Quote

  9. #9 by Rich from NYC on January 11, 2011 - 12:11 pm

    and yes, MORE on Eastern Philosophy. MORE!!! it’s rather open and fun to discuss and rattles the brain’s “western” way of thinking at times.

    Reply Quote

    • #10 by Mark Linsenmayer on January 11, 2011 - 12:38 pm

      OK, Rich. We’ll get some more in there eventually (check out the Buddhism one, though, if you haven’t already).

      Thanks for your time and appreciation! -ML

      Reply Quote
(will not be published)